I don't understand, you're saying it's OK for him to get wat he wants, but it's his fault for not being able to feed himself... How is that OK then?

He'll now have to borrow $50 from his friend / from the bank to feed himself...


OK Yosei, I think I understand your point... LOL When people think its OK to spend MORE than they could afford for useless luxuries.. get themselves into debt.. yup that's ruining the economic.. coz you will no longer be able to support yourself, and will start hving to rely on others... that's a debt to the society alright..

He knows he has 300 bucks. He knows he needs 150 bucks. But he still goes and spends 200 bucks on some pair of pants. That means he wants the pants more than food. He got what he wanted. If he wants pants and food, then tell him to work harder so he earns more.

Food is essential, the pair of pants isn't. If he can't weight out wat's a "must" and wats a "want" then it adds burden to himself and everything else thats get affected as a result of not feeding himself.

Yes, he KNOWS he's got $300, he knows he needs $150, that should meant that he KNOWS he can't afford those pants. NO you not suppose to get what you want if you can't afford it.

I want a Mansion but I cant afford it, does that mean I go put my hands up at an Auction anyway? But I can't afford it, but a millionaire can, by all means he can go live in that mansion while I stay in my little house.

If he really want those pants, he should earn more FIRST then buy later.

The fact that he cannot weigh what's more important is HIS fault. It's still entirely his choice as to what he wants to do with his money which he has earned. He just has to be prepared to met the consequences of his actions. That's basic responsibility. He hasn't done anything harmful to society by starving himself, and flaunting a new pair of jeans.

I think the scary thing is, there's not just one of these people in this world, there's a whole BUNCH of people that spends more than they could afford.

And when they all go borrow money from the money-hungry banks, and cant afford to repay the ever-going interest.. then the banks and financial institutes decide to go bust coz they can't get back all the money they lent out..

then people that saves with these bank suddenly lose their money...

Yup. There goes the economy.

Then it's the bank's fault for lending without seeing some collateral. It's more of irresponsible behaviour than irresponsible spending which causes all this.

Irresponsible spending IS irresponsible behaviour.. Spending is part of the behaviour.

Unfortunately that's how banks work nowadays. And can't blame the banks entirely, people should budget for themselves.

Just because the bank offer to lend you $10k it doesn't mean you HAVE to take it up. My credit card limit is $x, but it doesn't mean I need to spend ALL of the $x that was lent to me, because I only earn half of $x. I can't afford to repay them back.

Need to add #4 on Yosei's list..

1. Materialism
2. Laziness
3. Selfishness
4. Common Sense

The sort of Objectivist viewpoint you're holding, Vasu, is fine on paper, and on a basic level is probably the best view to hold overall. It's when the poor decisions of others out of your control begins to affect you where there's a problem. People live outside of their means, banks loan money to people that can't pay them back, then the bank goes under while holding the money of people with a good head on their shoulder. Suddenly, the person that has done nothing wrong has been affected by the poor choices of others.

See this is where you're misunderstanding me. I'm saying you can spend EARNED money in any way you see fit. You are talking about LOANED money. There's a world of difference. Anyways, I have to be off to school, I'll continue this debate in the evening.

EDIT: Hrae, what's fine on paper should work IRL if implemented correctly. Ciao now. Back in the evening.

But when people spend MORE than they've EARNT they money that they exceeded on will have to come from somewhere, and that's borrowed money.

On paper we can say "well he'll just have no food for 10 days" but that's not how reality works.


But going back to wat Yosei was saying, I think that the biggest culprit to this massive recession are from the people up high with LOTSA money and authority, pocketing it all and let it go bust...

People that's already struggling gets into a worst situation when people stop spending then losing their jobs etc...